Murtha at it again
Thanks to Tammy Bruce we now know this little tidbit of information from Reuters
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Rep. John Murtha, a key Democratic voice who favors pulling U.S. troops from Iraq, said in remarks airing on Monday that he would not join the U.S. military today.
A decorated Vietnam combat veteran who retired as a colonel after 37 years in the U.S. Marine Corps, Murtha told ABC News' "Nightline" program that Iraq "absolutely" was a wrong war for President George W. Bush to have launched.
"Would you join (the military) today?," he was asked in an interview taped on Friday.
"No," replied Murtha of Pennsylvania, the top Democrat on the House of Representatives subcommittee that oversees defense spending and one of his party's leading spokesmen on military issues.
Read the rest by clicking on Reuters
Murtha is a chump plain and simple and Tammy goes on to make the point that its time we start prosecuting on charges of Sedition
No other possibility exists.
posted by LiberalismIsAMentalDisorder @ 11:56
10 Comments:
There can be no such thing as “sedition” in a free society. There was a time when conservatives understood that. Too bad that time is in the past. Please do not ever act like you are speaking on behalf of a free society; you do not understand the least bit about freedom.
"There can be no such thing as “sedition” in a free society."
While that statement on its surface is true, there is, nonetheless, a law on the books which covers sedition. It has never been tested in court, so noone knows if the law is constitutional or not.
"Please do not ever act like you are speaking on behalf of a free society; you do not understand the least bit about freedom"
I am speaking on behalf of a free society, the free society that I enjoy and love and defend. If left up to the liberal loonies, we would all be in concentration camps now and speaking german. I understand freedom, my forefathers and relatives have fought and DIED for it, I myself have felt the uplifting of freedom and democracy, your statement that I do not understand is steeped in prejudice and hatred for my views and values.
Free speech as long as it is YOUR speech right?
Why dont you go over to Tammy Bruces blog and say what you said, see what kind of response you get, guaranteed it wont be steeped in temperance like this response is.
What exactly do you know about temperance? In your previous post you called those who disagree with you “scum”. In this post you take the sincerely offered thoughts of Rep. Murtha and state that he should be brought up on sedition charges. There may be someone practicing temperance here but it is not you.
As for your “defense” of the free society, give me a break. The conservative movement has, since 9/11, shown its true colors. It is a proponent of the imperial, garrison state. A state where every violation of rights is justified in the name of “security”, where there is neither check upon the actions of the executive nor any constitutionally recognized guarantee of our rights. This is not the nation our forefathers fought for; it is not the nation our founders envisioned. It is, sadly, the nation that conservatives long for. I would not be so critical of conservatives if they just came out and stated plainly that they favor leviathan. Instead they offer hypocritical propaganda that steals the language of a free society from those who truly advocate such a society.
By the way; why would I care what kind of reaction I got from Tammy Bruce?
P.S. My previous post was under a no longer used ID. It will be FCL that calls you on your errors.
"those who disagree with you “scum”."
No I called LIBERALS SCUM..read it
" In this post you take the sincerely offered thoughts of Rep. Murtha"
Which he was called on by the republicans and he didnt even vote to back up his call for the immediate withdrawal of troops
"There may be someone practicing temperance here but it is not you"
I am engaging in discourse with you without name calling, this is what I mean by temperance, which some others (Not you) have no idea what the meaning is.
"The conservative movement has, since 9/11, shown its true colors. It is a proponent of the imperial, garrison state. A state where every violation of rights is justified in the name of “security”, where there is neither check upon the actions of the executive nor any constitutionally recognized guarantee of our rights."
Benjamin Franklin said it best, 'the price of security is eternal vigilanc' Bring me just ONE instance where any policies of the administration has intruded on the rights of just ONE american who was doing no wrong.
" This is not the nation our forefathers fought for; it is not the nation our founders envisioned"
Yeah, you are right, the scourge of liberal values and ideals has plagued our culture and began to wear away who we are and the ideals and principals we were founded on.
"I would not be so critical of conservatives if they just came out and stated plainly that they favor leviathan. Instead they offer hypocritical propaganda that steals the language of a free society from those who truly advocate such a society."
Yeah, and I would feel the same about liberals and democrats who hide behind a disguised push towards socialism...the street goes both ways.
"By the way; why would I care what kind of reaction I got from Tammy Bruce?"
Because...hers is the posting that I reposted on my blog and the words were hers, not mine, though I agree with them.
" It will be FCL that calls you on your errors. "
If you can find them and prove them with utmost clarity, I will be the first to back off of my position...bring it on
Dear Mr. Error,
1. The resolution put to a vote by the Republicans was NOT Murtha’s proposal. It differed substantially in order for the Republicans to score cheap political points.
2 .http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/27/usdom11213.htm details how scores of Muslim men were jailed without charge following 9/11. 17 were U.S. citizens. Only a handful were ever charged. The report states clearly “The Justice Department evaded fundamental protections for the suspects and the legal requirements for arrested witnesses. Their court proceedings were conducted behind closed doors, and all the court documents were sealed. “
3. We really do not know the total number of Americans harmed by government policy. Executive secrecy and unaccountability with no checks and balances leave us in the dark as to the harm our government is doing to our citizens. This is a fundamentally dangerous thing to have happen in a free society.
4.There is no substantive distinction between socialists and conservatives. They are both gathered around different sides of the same alter of big government; but both worship the same false god leviathan. It matters little to a free individual whether his rights are being confiscated in the name of “security” or in the name of the chimera of “social equality” If you want to make the case for big government then be intellectually honest and do so. Just quit bastardizing the language of free markets, capitalism and an open society.
"1. The resolution put to a vote by the Republicans was NOT Murtha’s proposal. It differed substantially in order for the Republicans to score cheap political points"
Murtha said...."Withdraw all troops immediately" The replubicans said in their proposal "SHould the troops in Iraq be withdrawn immediately" Maybe I am slow but I fail to see how that is SUBSTANTIALLY different
"2 .http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/27/usdom11213.htm details how scores of Muslim men were jailed without charge following 9/11. 17 were U.S. citizens. Only a handful were ever charged. The report states clearly “The Justice Department evaded fundamental protections for the suspects and the legal requirements for arrested witnesses. Their court proceedings were conducted behind closed doors, and all the court documents were sealed. “ "
While you may give credibility to that website, I do not as they have an agenda, and given the ACLU's recent attacks on anything credible in america, the report that you directed me to gets laughed at. Show me an UNBIASED source and I will give it credibility, as I remember these are the same people who said "Bush wants to torture everyone"
"3. We really do not know the total number of Americans harmed by government policy. Executive secrecy and unaccountability with no checks and balances leave us in the dark as to the harm our government is doing to our citizens. This is a fundamentally dangerous thing to have happen in a free society."
So what you are saying is, it could have happened, or it could not have happened, noone knows INCLUDING you. Like I said before, bring me proof that just 1 american was prosecuted and jailed wrongly because of the patriot act and I will acquiesce to you.
"4.There is no substantive distinction between socialists and conservatives. They are both gathered around different sides of the same alter of big government; but both worship the same false god leviathan. It matters little to a free individual whether his rights are being confiscated in the name of “security” or in the name of the chimera of “social equality” If you want to make the case for big government then be intellectually honest and do so. Just quit bastardizing the language of free markets, capitalism and an open society."
Funny how you make that comparison. It would seem to me that the liberal agenda includes changing our culture, changing our language and changing the way we enforce our policies. They preach about peace and then watch in dumfounded stupor when people hell bent on the destruction of anything good or decent crashes 2 planes into the world trade center and kills 3000 of their fellow citizens. The only language that the terrorists understand is the language of force and violence, you must speak to them in their language. You speak of the fact that conservatives are taking away your rights in the name of security, well what about the liberals taking away your 2nd amendment rights in the name of security? Wouldnt you say the shoes belong on both feet? Both parties have self defeating agendas but I will tell you 1 thing...Republicans will ALWAYS keep your taxes low, let you retain your 2nd amendment rights and guarantee you your 5th amendment and other rights.
This is taken from the New York Times and reflects the true nature of Mr. Murtha’s proposal. “If approved by the House and Senate, Mr. Murtha's resolution would force the president to withdraw United States troops ''at the earliest practicable date,'' which he said could be six months. Under his plan, the Pentagon would retain a quick-reaction force in the region, as well as marines within a few sailing days.” This is substantially different than the Republican proposal that reached the floor.
Regarding the abuse of citizen’s rights; it is typical that you, when faced with unpleasant facts, resort to the tired “I don’t like that source” mantra. Attack the substance of the allegation. Use an “unbiased” source-The Wall Street Journal, National Review, Washington Times, whatever-to show that this illegal and unwarranted detention did not occur. But for God’s sake MAKE AN ARGUMENT. Whining that the source is TOOOO liiiberalll does not cut it in adult land.
Why do you fear transparency in our government? If you are so sure that no abuses have occurred, in spite of the citation I made previously then why not let at least some countervailing authority-i.e. the FISA court look at the President’s actions. A government protecting the rights of a free people should never fear this.
You said this about liberals (it so happens I am a libertarian) “Funny how you make that comparison. It would seem to me that the liberal agenda includes changing our culture, changing our language and changing the way we enforce our policies. They preach about peace and then watch in dumfounded stupor when people hell bent on the destruction of anything good or decent crashes 2 planes into the world trade center and kills 3000 of their fellow citizens. The only language that the terrorists understand is the language of force and violence; you must speak to them in their language. You speak of the fact that conservatives are taking away your rights in the name of security, well what about the liberals taking away your 2nd amendment rights in the name of security? Wouldn’t you say the shoes belong on both feet? Both parties have self defeating agendas but I will tell you 1 thing...Republicans will ALWAYS keep your taxes low, let you retain your 2nd amendment rights and guarantee you your 5th amendment and other rights.” I cite the whole quote because I scarcely know where to begin. Here goes:
The conservative agenda is to freeze our culture in say 1955 and to use any government program to further this end. A free society lets its culture develop organically or don’t you trust a free people. No one watched dumfounded at 9/11. It was clear that we were at war. Only be clear we are at war with Al-Qaeda. Not with Iraq and certainly not with ourselves or our own constitution. A free people are fully capable of prosecuting a defensive war justly AND effectively. Yes, as a libertarian, I would lay our problems at both parties. I in fact did so. Yes the Left disparages our rights, but we were discussing your crowd; the Right. So what if our taxes are low if we SPEND ourselves broke. The level of spending is ultimately the level of taxation so your point is moot. What good is the 5th Amendment if the rest of the constitution lies at your feet in shreds?
Again All I am asking is that conservatives make their fetish for large government plain and open. Then we can have a truly honest debate about the role of government in society.
"This is taken from the New York Times and reflects the true nature of Mr. Murtha’s proposal. “If approved by the House and Senate, Mr. Murtha's resolution would force the president to withdraw United States troops ''at the earliest practicable date,'' which he said could be six months."
For an ex-marine to say such a thing is a slap in the face of every freedom loving american in this country, amazing how you hold him up as a hero huh?
"Regarding the abuse of citizen’s rights; it is typical that you, when faced with unpleasant facts, resort to the tired “I don’t like that source” mantra. Attack the substance of the allegation. Use an “unbiased” source-The Wall Street Journal, National Review, Washington Times, whatever-to show that this illegal and unwarranted detention did not occur. But for God’s sake MAKE AN ARGUMENT. Whining that the source is TOOOO liiiberalll does not cut it in adult land."
I asked you for proof .. when proof is asked for, its only reasonable to ask for that proof from a credible source that has nothing to gain, you presented the facts from a source that has a hidden agenda (the aclu) Would you accept eyewitness testimony from the crackhead who was smoking in the alley at the time of the robbery or the businessman across the street who hasnt smoked or done drugs in 10 years? It is not at all unreasonable to ask for the information from a credible source.
"You said this about liberals (it so happens I am a libertarian) "
Liberal and libertarian are not one and the same, and if you, as a libertarian, connect the 2 together, I strongly reccomend you review your politics.
"The conservative agenda is to freeze our culture in say 1955 and to use any government program to further this end."
And the liberal agenda is the destruction of democracy with socialism as the antidote for anything and everything american
" A free society lets its culture develop organically or don’t you trust a free people. No one watched dumfounded at 9/11. It was clear that we were at war."
And how soon they forget huh?
"Only be clear we are at war with Al-Qaeda. Not with Iraq and certainly not with ourselves or our own constitution."
Still stuck on that distinction huh? Here is news for you, Hussein was a sponsor of Al-Quaeda, do your homework.
"So what if our taxes are low if we SPEND ourselves broke"
The demoncats answer is to raise taxes to redirect the money to social programs and those who refuse to work, how about that?
"Again All I am asking is that conservatives make their fetish for large government plain and open"
That will only happen when the Demorats come forward and admit they too are for big government, and they want total control of the people...ie Socialism.
This will be my final post on this particular topic, as the discussion is becoming circular. First of all I never EVER said liberal and libertarians were the same. You were clearly viewing me as a liberal prior to my post. I was only altering you to the fact that I am a libertarian. Please read what is written in its full context before popping off. Secondly it is truly impossible for a conservative to defend the policies of the current administration without becoming stuck in a morass of hypocrisy. This administration has increased spending faster than any since Johnson. That is non-defense, non-welfare related spending. On top of that we are now saddled with what will eventually be a drug benefit plan costing trillions. This represents the biggest increase in Medicare since Johnson. Farm subsidies are out of control and transfer payments across the board show no sign of being contained anytime soon. In addition, as we have seen, there has been a steady erosion of our civil liberties and a corrosive growth in the interference of government in our lives. I don’t see how we could have done worse under a Democrat. The bottom line is that regarding matters of government size, scope or protection of our freedoms the Republicans are as morally and intellectually bankrupt as the Democrats. Both liberals and conservatives work tirelessly for control of other people’s lives, money and thoughts; Lenin would be proud of both groups of comrades.
Well since its your last post on the subject, let me say thanks for playing.
Have a great day
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